Trump says ban on 'bump stocks' coming’
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mechdriver
Resolved
Great analogy with the cake.
The bottom line is real simple. Anytime you compromise, you lose.
Until we fight this war on our rights as a total war, not just the battle for the 2nd but for freedom, we will never win. And win we must or this country will cease to be what it is defined to be in the founding documents.
In other words, we need repeal of most of the 'regulations' that have been foisted on us by our 'elected representatives' since the start of the 20th century.
I know what we need. How do we accomplish this? With compromise? No. That's what got us where we are.
The bottom line is real simple. Anytime you compromise, you lose.
Until we fight this war on our rights as a total war, not just the battle for the 2nd but for freedom, we will never win. And win we must or this country will cease to be what it is defined to be in the founding documents.
In other words, we need repeal of most of the 'regulations' that have been foisted on us by our 'elected representatives' since the start of the 20th century.
I know what we need. How do we accomplish this? With compromise? No. That's what got us where we are.
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Totally agree.
There is a real road block in that freedom is contrary to the interests of just about every elected representative as well as those that makeup the potential representative pool. Freedom means, or at least requires, doing for yourself. Representatives are political entities. Those that can't achieve that which they desire by their own efforts and labors, instead try to do so through the political process. (From our enemy the state by Albert Knock).
In other words you will never achieve the former through the political process, any more than the founding fathers could. They did a good job in restraining the creep of the state, but made the mistake of creating a state. (Knock discusses this too).
Why?
Why does he want to ban these?
What do they think it'll do to help the public?
And, how many of you wont vote for him again based on this decision/talk (even if it doesnt go through, he's showing he's pro-banning of accessories)
Why does he want to ban these?
What do they think it'll do to help the public?
And, how many of you wont vote for him again based on this decision/talk (even if it doesnt go through, he's showing he's pro-banning of accessories)
It is a calculated move. How many votes do I gain from soccer moms vs how many do I lose from gun guys? IMO he could give a crap about the 2nd. If giving this up means he gets a bigger % of women and not lose too many gun guys he'll do it in a heart beat.
After all, this election is just too important...
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OP
The RINOS already know that 99.9% of gun guys are gonna vote for any R over any D no matter how much they screw us. They've proven it election after election. They're not the least bit concerned about losing your vote. They also know that the NRA will always endorse any R over any D and that most members will vote the way the NRA tells them to. So, what's their incentive to do anything to protect, much less expand, our gun rights?
Terry
Terry
Your response is what I was thinking.
How many moderate, fence sitter, and women votes would he pick up versus how many single issue voters would he lose?
"Gun guys" are definitely going to grumble and generate memes, but how many will pull the lever for the D or a 3rd party over this?
Dale Gribble
Can't starve us out; Can't make us run
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No politician, of any party, is either the savior or the destroyer of the RTKBA. Whether it lives or whether it dies is entirely up to you and only you.
Each individual citizen has to make that choice.
Each individual citizen has to make that choice.
mechdriver
Resolved
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OP
Me. The only way the Rs will stop taking our votes for granted is if we stop giving it to them! Even if that means replacing them with a D.
Terry
OP
Unfortunately, you and I do not make the laws. The politicians do. We can only choose whether or not to obey them.
Terry
Mattyb
Internet Tough Guy
It’s been said here before that gun owners are the Republican’s “black vote”. Gun owners will rationalize things like this and happily vote for their Republican candidates no matter what they do or how much they show their true colors. It won’t alienate his base in any way. Trump knows this.
OP
The number 1 priority of the NRA is the continued existence of the NRA and it's revenue stream.
Terry
No. No D's. I'd rather vote for a stoned, open border Libertarian that won't burn me in an oven someday.
Problem is when they ban the bump stock, and then someone, God Forbids, shoots a bunch of people again, they’ll then go after the weapon it’s self that the person used. They always have to blame objects instead of societies loss of morals, mental health failures, and individuals. Banning objects associated with our second amendment is always a bad idea, as it’s a slippery slope to give up liberty a little at a time.
IrishCannon
Fight hard.
I get very frustrated at threads like these.
I feel like some of you just want to sit and wait for the "perfect" candidate and in doing so, act like you're doing us all a favor.
I agree with you on the issues...I just don't see your way of going about it as helping...like, at all.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
I feel like some of you just want to sit and wait for the "perfect" candidate and in doing so, act like you're doing us all a favor.
I agree with you on the issues...I just don't see your way of going about it as helping...like, at all.
Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
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No one is waiting for the perfect candidate,as that person doesn't exist.
What many of us have done is stop making excuses for candidates whose actions are directly opposite of their rhetoric based on nothing more than the letter they appended to their name.
The fact that so many people continue to make excuses is the truly frustrating part.
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Not to be a thorn in this discussion but has he actually proposed anything at all related to bump stocks? Could it be he was just spouting off at the mouth as he is known to do?
They already have such a system. Cops get permits (or don't need them) and can carry in all sorts of places with little to no restriction. You, a lower tiered person, don't get to. Simple.
OP
Nope, not just talk:
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2018/03/29/2018-06292/bump-stock-type-devices
“SUMMARY:
The Department of Justice (Department) proposes to amend the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives regulations to clarify that “bump fire” stocks, slide-fire devices, and devices with certain similar characteristics (bump-stock-type devices) are “machineguns” as defined by the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) and the Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), because such devices allow a shooter of a semiautomatic firearm to initiate a continuous firing cycle with a single pull of the trigger. Specifically, these devices convert an otherwise semiautomatic firearm into a machinegun by functioning as a self-acting or self-regulating mechanism that harnesses the recoil energy of the semiautomatic firearm in a manner that allows the trigger to reset and continue firing without additional physical manipulation of the trigger by the shooter. Hence, a semiautomatic firearm to which a bump-stock-type device is attached is able to produce automatic fire with a single pull of the trigger. With limited exceptions, primarily as to government agencies, the GCA makes it unlawful for any person to transfer or possess a machinegun unless it was lawfully possessed prior to the effective date of the statute. The bump-stock-type devices covered by this proposed rule were not in existence prior to the GCA's effective date, and therefore would fall within the prohibition on machineguns if this Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) is implemented. Consequently, current possessors of these devices would be required to surrender them, destroy them, or otherwise render them permanently inoperable upon the effective date of the final rule.”
Terry
NC Senators Burr & Tillis are good examples of what we're talking about here. They grudgingly throw us a few crumbs around election time but really wish we would go away. Only a single (R) keeps Dirty Dianne from controlling the Senate, and you would have a rabid foaming-at-the-mouth full-bore gun grabber writing legislation that would be difficult to stop and impossible to repeal.
I didn't like voting for Burr & Tillis, but if a Democrat was sitting in that seat, we wouldn't have Gorsuch and Kavanaugh. And for once, McConnell grew a pair, showed some leadership, and shoved it through. If "A Gun in every Classroom" ever makes it to the ballot, I'll give him my support. But when the choice is between "sometimes does the right thing for selfish reasons" and "will fervently work against us every time they get a chance", I'll take the first.
The recent Supreme Court battle was about guns more than any other issue. I believe that Kavanaugh's revenge against Dirty Dianne will come when he writes the opinion that strikes down California's unconstitutional gun laws.
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FIFY
Or that he "Loves eminent domain" to take other peoples property by gubmnt force to line his pockets.
Or that he destroys other's reputation/credibility to get himself ahead?
Or that he financially supported Charles Rangle and Hitlery?
Trump has pushed some good things through. He IS NOT a man of principle or Liberty.
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OP
That was just the first part of the process. It will be a done deal by early next year.
"Process for Issuing Final Rule
The Administrative Procedure Act, 5 U.S.C. § 551 et seq., requires federal agencies to publish in the Federal Register a general notice of proposed rulemaking and give interested persons an opportunity to submit comments thereon. Agencies must consider and address all comments in the final rule. Even if the comments are primarily negative, agencies are free to adopt the proposals in the NPRM as long as the final rule addresses the comments and articulates a rational basis for the proposals adopted.
ATF officials advise they have detailed additional employees to the Office of Regulatory Affairs to assist in reviewing the comments. The agency hopes to complete their review and forward a draft final rule to the Department of Justice within the near future. Review at Justice is likely to take several months, then the final rule will be submitted to the Office of Management and Budget for review.
Pursuant to an Executive Order issued in 1993, the Office of Management and Budget has 90 days to review a final rule. The 90-day time period may be extended once for an additional 30-day period. Once OMB approves the final rule, it will be published in the Federal Register. The Administrative Procedure Act requires that the final rule be published not less than 30 days before its effective date, unless the agency articulates “good cause” for making it effective sooner. If ATF publishes a final rule banning bump-stock-type devices and requiring consumers to destroy them, the agency may delay the effective date beyond 30 days. This would afford possessors more time to comply with the destroy or surrender requirements. Consumers who continue to possess unregistered bump-stock-type devices after the effective date will risk criminal prosecution and/or seizure and forfeiture of the devices."
Read more: https://www.ammoland.com/2018/07/re...f-prepares-to-issue-final-rule/#ixzz5TZJ2IYwP
Terry
IrishCannon
Fight hard.
I can speak for myself and say I'm certainly not making excuses, but I am confident in the fact that bump stocks are not going to keep me from supporting a president who has brought far more benefit to the country than we have seen in decades. That does not mean I am without criticism for him. We could go on the attack with him all day long, and I would probably agree on most points, but I am not a one issue voter and never will be.
I think we've had this discussion before and determined where we draw the line is just a different location.
I just find it interesting that the anti-DJT folks on this forum will always show up in these types of threads, and never in the threads that show the massive improvements he has made in the country in support of our Republic.
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We really don't know much about Gorsuch or Kennedy, eh, Kavanaugh yet. Catch that? Yeah Kavanaugh was a Kennedy underling so we'll see where he falls. I am not optimistic. His attitude on the 4th is horrendous. We seem to forget history. Roberts was once our savior too. Until he re-wrote the ACA and gave us Nationalized, Corporatist Health Insurance. The belief that Republican appointed Justoces will save the country is a bad bet based on past results.
OP
I will always be a one issue voter. That one issue is FREEDOM. Without it, none of the other issues matter.
Terry
IrishCannon
Fight hard.
That sounds cool and all, but it doesn't help in practicality. Absolutely every politician will flex their position to some degree, even our founding fathers criticized themselves the same way.
We have made some great improvements in the last couple of years TOWARDS more freedom in many areas, and yet I continue just to hear a lot of bellyaching from a few.
Again, I really don't understand your aim. I'm assuming you're just waiting for the "reset" button to get pushed? - It will happen eventually either way. Are you kind of hoping for an attempted marxist revolution just to speed things along and start from the framework again? What's your goal? I'd like for some of you to lay out your gripes and tell me what can actually be done.
Outside of voting or an armed conflict, I'm not sure what's left anymore. We can't even agree on a Convention of States around here. That was pretty much the last viable option given to us before utter chaos.
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I am no Trump hater, but where is all this new freedom?
ACA is still in effect.
And where is my damn wall? 16 child rapes/sexual assaults in NC in September by 9 illegal aliens. Yeah, that's fine.
http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/september-2018-child-rapes-by-illegal-aliens-in-nc/
BUILD THE WALL.
Those are the 2 things Trump ran on. He has about 2 more years to achieve them before his re-election campaign. Despite the humor in his tweets and joy at seeing Dems implode he will be judged on what he promised. And don't look now, but the shine is wearing off on our Fed induced stock market. He'll likely not want to brag about that too much longer. I am pulling for him, but he is in a heck of a spot right now.
IrishCannon
Fight hard.
I won't reinvent the wheel, so here is a current list, not all of which I agree with as being beneficial or "real" improvement, but many are. - https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...-in-just-20-months-relentless-promise-keeping
As mentioned in the article, $1.6B secured in funding for the wall.
Regulatory rollbacks
2 solid SCOTUS justices, and now his nominations for the 9th Circuit
Proposed support of decriminalizing marijuana at the federal level and giving States full jurisdiction (yet to be seen)
Renegotiation of NAFTA
Withdrew from the Iran deal
I could keep going.
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Long_Hunter
Sufficient Speed, Acceptable Drag
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IMO...One (1) solid SCOTUS pick. After everything that happened, the ironic thing is that Kavanaugh getting on to the Supreme Court is a loss for conservatives, but nobody on the right wants to admit this. We got fooled by Justice Kennedy, we got fooled by Sandra Day O’Connor, we got fooled by David Souter, and now we have just been fooled again.
Kavanaugh clerked for Justice Kennedy, and he is cut from the exact same cloth as his mentor. Kennedy was one of the key votes to uphold Roe v. Wade in the Casey decision, and he actually wrote the opinion for the case that legalized gay marriage in America. It is rumored that Kennedy would not retire until he was assured that Kavanaugh would be nominated in his place, because he knew that Kavanaugh would be the exact same type of Supreme Court justice that he had been.
I m not celebrating this “victory” at all.
But what his confirmation process did prove is that we are closer to chaos on the streets of America than ever before and that we are likely sleepwalking into a second civil war, but that just my worthless zinc cents.
Kavanaugh clerked for Justice Kennedy, and he is cut from the exact same cloth as his mentor. Kennedy was one of the key votes to uphold Roe v. Wade in the Casey decision, and he actually wrote the opinion for the case that legalized gay marriage in America. It is rumored that Kennedy would not retire until he was assured that Kavanaugh would be nominated in his place, because he knew that Kavanaugh would be the exact same type of Supreme Court justice that he had been.
I m not celebrating this “victory” at all.
But what his confirmation process did prove is that we are closer to chaos on the streets of America than ever before and that we are likely sleepwalking into a second civil war, but that just my worthless zinc cents.
Funding for the wall happened under Bush as well. Still no wall. Funding isn't really relevant. Where is my bleeping wall?
We don't know if the SCOTUS picks are solid. As history has shown.
Free Pot. Yippee. That is important.
From what I have read the new NAFTA is not much different than the old one. He rearranged deck chairs.
Iran deal was a good call, but it did not increase my freedom one bit.
No Hearing Safety Act.
No National Reciprocity
No Wall
Still have ACA.
He has lots of work to do.