5 Houston police officers shot.
- Thread starter Cowboy
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From the link posted by @GreatGazoo
This action was allegedly taken because of a tip from s neighbor for Christ’s sake.
So because of some comment from a man on the street, the kit up and commit a home invasion under the FARCE of law. While your at it, look at the pictures of the two occupants of the home: a 58 and 59 year old white couple who died defending their home from invaders. And some have to wonder why the community is calling the cops the enemy?
This action was allegedly taken because of a tip from s neighbor for Christ’s sake.
So because of some comment from a man on the street, the kit up and commit a home invasion under the FARCE of law. While your at it, look at the pictures of the two occupants of the home: a 58 and 59 year old white couple who died defending their home from invaders. And some have to wonder why the community is calling the cops the enemy?
OP
From the link posted by @GreatGazoo
This action was allegedly taken because of a tip from s neighbor for Christ’s sake.
So because of some comment from a man on the street, the kit up and commit a home invasion under the FARCE of law. While your at it, look at the pictures of the two occupants of the home: a 58 and 59 year old white couple who died defending their home from invaders. And some have to wonder why the community is calling the cops the enemy?
No judge would have given them a search warrant just based on a tip. They would have had to do more work that they just aren't willing to give because it would burn CI's. A lot of cases start with tips like this but they can never be the sole source of information.
My experience is that drugs are kind of like taking a water sample from the Mississippi River. Your sampling isn't going to be the same in an hour or even 20 minutes if it's a busy place. So depending on when and how long they got the warrant the inventory could have been sold out.
Lack of intelligence, planning, proper training, and proper employment of tactics is the most likely cause of these cops getting hurt and killed. My take on this is in reading the news, seems that the police are not ready to deal with the bad guys that employ rifles. This all lands on the feet of the police leadership.
Not if they just make up the extra info to get the warrant, i.e. Toccoa, Georgia in 2014. At least they didn't nearly kill a toddler with a grenade this time....just an old man and his cancer-striken wife.
New reports coming out of Houston are suggesting that the officers that initially hit the house were undercover (plain clothes) conducting a no knock o'dark thirty raid on the wrong house.
So going after a major black tar heroin dealer who had no black tar heroin, nor any evidence of its having been there, stored there, or manufactured there - oh, but weed and some white powder!
A proactive statement by the police union about using force against critics of the police, in the most blatant police state rhetoric possible.
And 5 officers in the hospital.
IF they were plain clothes and IF they were at the wrong house, then I side completely with the homeowner who was defending his castle against an unlawful home invasion. Little to no sympathy for anyone but the slain homeowners and their families.
Authority insulated from accountability leads to a terrible place.
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You have the internet, and the crime stats are clear.
Drug crimes have all but disappeared.
Use rates less than half of what they were.
Addiction rates even less.
Prisons aren't overflowing with nonviolent drug offenders.
And teen use rates have plummeted.
Not that facts will change your mind.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
A couple of weeks back, I watched 'Scarface' with my 14 year old son. Somewhere in the midst of that, the dirty detective on the payroll told Tony Montana "The Supreme Court has said that we can invade your privacy" referring to
narcotics investigations and the power that they now hold.....
Somewhere in the last 30 years, it was went from 'we can invade your privacy' willy-nilly to 'we can invade your home'. Expect these results to continue to play out over and over.
Just wait the the homeowners have body armor better than the invaders.....oh wait, some already do.
narcotics investigations and the power that they now hold.....
Somewhere in the last 30 years, it was went from 'we can invade your privacy' willy-nilly to 'we can invade your home'. Expect these results to continue to play out over and over.
Just wait the the homeowners have body armor better than the invaders.....oh wait, some already do.
If you make all the laws go away then there's no arrest = no crime, crime goes down.
The 2nd part, Utopia, I'm not sure...
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Maybe that's why crime was so low in the post WWII to Nixon era eh?
No war on drugs or GCA to make up the majority of "violent offender" team arrests
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Not disputing the point, but given the current state of the judiciary, I would not be surprised by anything a judge might
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OP
Wow you must have more information about all what they did than most people.
I'm sure it happens. But most of the time you have to work harder at being wrong than what it is to do the job correctly. Have you ever seen the "quit your snitching" episode of my name is earl.
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OP
I'm pretty secure in search warrant law to say its not enough, ever enough with the state of any judiciary.
So was Thomas More.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Yeah, Jose Guerena's widow says not so much
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Guerena_shooting
"Guerena was awakened about 9:30 am by his wife who heard noises outside their house, later identified as flash/bang grenades deployed by police in the back yard as a diversion.
He instructed his wife and 4-year-old son to hide inside a closet while he grabbed his AR-15 rifle and crouched down preparing to defend himself from the unidentified people breaking and entering into his home.
The Sheriff's Department initially claimed that Guerena had fired on officers; at least three of the SWAT members including the team commander reported in their post-operation debriefings that they had observed muzzle flashes aimed at them from inside the house.
After an examination of the rifle Guerena allegedly pointed at the officers however, it was determined that the rifle had not been fired; the safety was still engaged. Other officers claimed they saw splinters from the doorjamb being hit by bullets; the shots that caused this were determined to come from other members of the SWAT team themselves.
"There were five officers at the door beginning to make entry into this home, when they engaged this individual that they believed was actually firing at them."Other versions of this story claim that officers started shooting after Guerena pointed the gun at them, though under questioning they were initially unsure whether he had actually moved to target them.A video of the raid shows roughly 38 seconds expired from the time the police briefly sounded a siren upon pulling into Guerena's driveway until they shot him.At this point the five person team fired at least 71 rounds at Guerena in less than seven seconds, who died after being hit 22 times"
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OP
So what exactly does this have to do with PC to grant search warrants that are done properly?
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
A judge granted that swat team a warrant. I'm not gonna delve into it but let's just say probable cause can range from a recorded drug buy to "electrical usage anomaly" when presented to the right judge.
In the case of Guerena, they paid 3.4M taxpayer dollars for not being diligent with providing actual evidence (as in totally made up) in order to roll the SWAT team to this Marine vets front door and make him room temperature
OP
Ok again a judge can not determine PC on anything more than presented to them. If an LEO lies about that information you can't blame the judge. My statement was that a neighborhood tip alone is not enough to get a search warrant. Now if they did or didn't follow up and do the work to further develop the PC I have no idea.
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Oh they didnt outright lie, but he was named as a suspect in a long running drug investigation by 4 separate agencies, and rather than being questioned or investigated they kicked the door and shot him 70 times.
The brother who lived in another state had some cash and weed in HIS house but I'm not sure the $3.4M settlement plus the cost of the investigation was recovered in ensuing operations.
Yay, war on drugs.
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Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
and criminal charges filed........for trespassing, for brandishing, communicating threats, theft, etc.
Look at the rules of engagement for our soldiers. So if LEOs want to play soldier, they should be held equally if not moreso accountable for their actions on US soil.
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You know what?
I agree with you there.
IF, you are going to violate someone's constitutional rights, you had better have a damn good reason, and you had better be right.
Although, if a bad guy is engaging LEO in this country, and then drops his weapon and runs away, police shouldn't turn him into swiss cheese, oversees however? Light them up..
Ikarus1
Avtomat Krishna-kov
Or just stay the hell out of places where they have no business playing soldier/world cop......foreign and domestic.
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Sure, but to quote James Woods in that 90's classic "The Specialist," "You're the rigger not the trigger."
Soldiers go where they are ordered and really get very little, if any, say in the matter, so what you are talking about requires addressing much farther up the chain of command.
Dat rite der.....das rasssissss.
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
Wasn't meant that way (but that doesn't matter, I guess). That's what they used to call the lookouts for, in particular, the bookies and gambling hideouts.
BudE, I wasn't accusing you my friend. Believe me, I'm the last to do that! It's amazing to me that some folks see everything as a racist remark, symbol, or historical example. I did think after re-looking it was funny though.
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
BudE
Hillsborough, NC
You know, the more I think about it, I realize you're right on the money
They were already in politics have been for over 150 years
An alternate opinion:
No knock, plain clothes, entered the house and immediately shot the dog, neighbor says they don't deal drugs, no heroin found...makes one wonder. Is a little heroin worth invading their home? If they were dealing don't you think they could catch the buyers/sellers coming or going?
If they hit the wrong house, the entire chain of command needs to be charged criminally.
The more that seems to be coming out proves my #44 post, the police screwed up and some paid for that mistake with their lives. So sad that management will not take responsibility.
Why?
If they were briefed on the wrong house, and set up the raid based on that, then you have some argument.
However if they team hit the wrong house after being briefed on the correct one, then the fault lies with the team itself.
Not sure how this happened...
For some reason this meme comes to mind: https://goo.gl/images/KSvtGQ
Man, this couple really got a shit sandwich.
This Union guy really comes off looking like a complete a-hole in view of what we are learning about this.
" Gamaldi said. “We are sick and tired of having targets on our back. We are sick and tired of having dirtbags trying to take our lives when all we’re trying to do is protect this community and protect our families. Enough is enough.” "
This quote is what the poor dead guy and his wife should be sayin! Apparently, the dirtbags were Union!
This Union guy really comes off looking like a complete a-hole in view of what we are learning about this.
" Gamaldi said. “We are sick and tired of having targets on our back. We are sick and tired of having dirtbags trying to take our lives when all we’re trying to do is protect this community and protect our families. Enough is enough.” "
This quote is what the poor dead guy and his wife should be sayin! Apparently, the dirtbags were Union!